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Old 03-01-2013, 04:24 PM
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Question Overwhelmed and stumped. Help?

I'm really hoping for some SIMPLE clarity and direction as although there have been plenty of posts/threads on this topic, I'm beyond exhausted in terms of actually solving it after hours of forum hunting and googling. I'd be so grateful for your time if you could offer some "Hollywood Strings for Dummies" feedback. BTW I wanted to attach screenshots but with a 19.5kb forum attachment limit I was at a loss for anything legible so I'm inserting links instead, hope they work.

Ex. Section of Piece with and without piano
http://westonboucher.com/misc/sound1
http://westonboucher.com/misc/sound2

Screenshots
http://westonboucher.com/misc/screenshotA
http://westonboucher.com/misc/screenshotB

Basically I have a piece that I'm trying to record with HS Full strings STR celli legato slur LT6 patch and because the volume is the same for every note I play on my digital piano, the notes from one to the next sound abrupt and unnatural. This may not even be what's going to solve my issue at all but I'm trying to eliminate each possibility. At the end of the day I just want to be able to play legato patches on my digital piano without this abrupt volume overlap sound from one note to the next. It's like one note cancels out the other as soon as it's pressed and they compete with each other.

If I can find the EASIEST way to be able to play without this unnatural sound then that's my first choice solution -wise. I don't need a million options of customizable controllers as I'm finding that I'm spending so much time tweaking that I'm never actually writing and recording haha. I just want to get set up and be done with it and write/record. I know that's wishful thinking, forgive my frustration induced mood lol.

Why I can't hear more than one note at a time in this STR full strings sound? Is that by design for this patch?

Some have suggested using a surface controller since certain patches don't use velocity. So I went that route with TouchOSC but I don't understand how to assign velocity to a parameter on my iPad for TouchOSC, it's so confusing even after forum searches, site docs, and youtube videos. I guess I don't understand the concept in real world practical use when I go to actually record the song. I really don't have to have some amazing dynamic range but it would be great to easily adjust certain sections/notes to be more or less intense at specific moments in the piece without going the tedious route of expression editing with a line tool and points.

Hackintosh ProBook 4530s, 8GB Ram, 2.19ghz Intel QuadCore, SSD, Mtn Lion
Logic Pro 9
Hollywood Strings Gold
korg 88 key SP-100 (http://www.synthony.com/vintage/sp100.html)
TouchOSC
MOTU UltraLite Mk3 FW Interface

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:45 PM
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First I would try a different patch. The legato instruments cut off the previous note in favor of the new one which is the way they are supposed to work. You should try layering a couple of instruments together. Might I suggest the Celli Legato Port + slur and one of the long Celli sustain instruments. I usually drop the volume on the sustain just a little and add some reverb. Only play one note at a time. If you want a sliding sound then play at a low velocity and a slur sound at a higher one. The other big thing is to remember that while the sustain will play more than one note at a time the legato will not. This usually gives me a nice sound for what I think you are looking for.

CC11 is an important part of the sound as is the mod wheel (CC1). These are what control the expression an dynamics in HS. If you are not familar with their use you should look up how to use them in Logic.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:59 PM
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Bryan has given some good advice. The patch you've selected plays every note like a simple sustain except the ones within the cello's range. Those notes will be legato, and only one of them will ever sound at one time.

These patches are really made more for early experimentation and work on the composition or melody, than for the actual recording stage. You'd probably get a better result to do as Bryan suggests; figure out what you want each individual section to do, and record that. In general, try to avoid using the Full Strings patches for your actual recordings. It's not really what they were made for, and the individual section patches will serve you better there.

Also, I don't think you can assign velocity as one of your iPad's OSC parameters. Velocity is just how hard you play each note, so even if you could program it, you shouldn't need to. You just do it. The harder you press each note, the higher that note's velocity.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:23 PM
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Also you will need to remember on these instruments the velocity does something different than volume. Shorts will be affected by velocity but not sustains and legatos.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonBouchér View Post
I'm really hoping for some SIMPLE clarity and direction as although there have been plenty of posts/threads on this topic, I'm beyond exhausted in terms of actually solving it after hours of forum hunting and googling. I'd be so grateful for your time if you could offer some "Hollywood Strings for Dummies" feedback. BTW I wanted to attach screenshots but with a 19.5kb forum attachment limit I was at a loss for anything legible so I'm inserting links instead, hope they work.

Ex. Section of Piece with and without piano
http://westonboucher.com/misc/sound1
http://westonboucher.com/misc/sound2

Screenshots
http://westonboucher.com/misc/screenshotA
http://westonboucher.com/misc/screenshotB

Basically I have a piece that I'm trying to record with HS Full strings STR celli legato slur LT6 patch and because the volume is the same for every note I play on my digital piano, the notes from one to the next sound abrupt and unnatural. This may not even be what's going to solve my issue at all but I'm trying to eliminate each possibility. At the end of the day I just want to be able to play legato patches on my digital piano without this abrupt volume overlap sound from one note to the next. It's like one note cancels out the other as soon as it's pressed and they compete with each other.

If I can find the EASIEST way to be able to play without this unnatural sound then that's my first choice solution -wise. I don't need a million options of customizable controllers as I'm finding that I'm spending so much time tweaking that I'm never actually writing and recording haha. I just want to get set up and be done with it and write/record. I know that's wishful thinking, forgive my frustration induced mood lol.

Why I can't hear more than one note at a time in this STR full strings sound? Is that by design for this patch?

Some have suggested using a surface controller since certain patches don't use velocity. So I went that route with TouchOSC but I don't understand how to assign velocity to a parameter on my iPad for TouchOSC, it's so confusing even after forum searches, site docs, and youtube videos. I guess I don't understand the concept in real world practical use when I go to actually record the song. I really don't have to have some amazing dynamic range but it would be great to easily adjust certain sections/notes to be more or less intense at specific moments in the piece without going the tedious route of expression editing with a line tool and points.

Hackintosh ProBook 4530s, 8GB Ram, 2.19ghz Intel QuadCore, SSD, Mtn Lion
Logic Pro 9
Hollywood Strings Gold
korg 88 key SP-100 (http://www.synthony.com/vintage/sp100.html)
TouchOSC
MOTU UltraLite Mk3 FW Interface

Thanks in advance!

Hi WestonBouchér,

I am having the same problem as you ...! After a comprehensive sampling of the problem sent to technical support company eastwest, they told me that they do not hear any problem and that this sudden change of sound due to the change of bow ...! I personally would not agree with them because if you imagine that this can be done in harmony and every chord change then sound like an orchestra with a hiccup. I totally understand the problems they face and hear crystal clear in your request! I think that is a bad point between machine code and play ... To better findings, go to demos list here http://www.soundsonline-europe.com/Hollywood-Strings and then chose the sample titled "Love Suspended" and listen carefully to the series from the first notes (A-D-E-F-A) from the cellos and you will see that between the notes E, F have the same phenomenon of sound ...! Another solution is to make a small complex or additional process of problem solving using the MIDI Controllers ... I hope that in the future the issue with Legato to correct as much as one large library is unfair to lose ground to other libraries on the market that do not have this problem ...! Personally I am a professional composer and this really is a big problem that should fix it ...!
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:18 PM
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Thank you SO MUCH for the responses and clarity on the patches guys, it's so nice to have insight like this!

So moving forward I will heed your advice and follow your suggestions. I tried some of the other patches and have noticed the differences you mentioned between slur, port, sus, etc with moving from one note to the next. My issue is still that I'm trying to find a patch that has the warmth, tone and strength of the initial "celli legato slur LT6" as others thus far sound weaker and much lower in volume(I still have many more to try though so I'm not concluding that I've come up short just yet).

Med8r...I actually don't notice a change in volume/dynamics in regards to the effect of velocity happening while I'm playing real time. Which patch actually reacts to note velocity so that the sensitivity meter in play actually reacts?

Since I now have TouchOSC installed, I do want to make use of TouchOSC to become familiar with the effects of assigning CC11 and CC1 to parameters in Logic but it's so confusing to figure this out even after doing tons of googling and youtubing. I wish there was a video tutorial for dummies on this specific thing since it seems so common for MIDI composing with keyboards that don't have a physical mod wheel. In addition, I'd love to also know how exactly it's used in real time when hitting the record button and performing the piece when it's being tracked, I don't grasp the concept. So I press a note on keys and then touch the iPad or touch the iPad in TouchOSC AFTER I've tracked the piece to add parameter effects to certain notes? I apologize for my lack of understanding as I'm laying the groundwork so I can do everything right from the start and grasp how to execute convincing versions of my original pieces.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonBouchér View Post
Med8r...I actually don't notice a change in volume/dynamics in regards to the effect of velocity happening while I'm playing real time. Which patch actually reacts to note velocity so that the sensitivity meter in play actually reacts?

Since I now have TouchOSC installed, I do want to make use of TouchOSC to become familiar with the effects of assigning CC11 and CC1 to parameters in Logic but it's so confusing to figure this out even after doing tons of googling and youtubing. I wish there was a video tutorial for dummies on this specific thing since it seems so common for MIDI composing with keyboards that don't have a physical mod wheel. In addition, I'd love to also know how exactly it's used in real time when hitting the record button and performing the piece when it's being tracked, I don't grasp the concept.
The velocity will only affect dynamics with patches in the "Shorts Tight" or "Shorts Loose" folders (a few of the patches in "Effects" are also velocity-controlled, I believe). In all the other patches, dynamics is controlled by CC11 or CC1 (CC1 for the light legato or sustain patches). If you find that velocity doesn't control volume in those 2 Shorts folders, then make sure your keyboard is velocity-sensitive. Most are these days, but some aren't, so that could be your issue. If your keyboard's not velocity-sensitive, then I would strongly recommend that you invest in one that is as soon as you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonBouchér View Post
So I press a note on keys and then touch the iPad or touch the iPad in TouchOSC AFTER I've tracked the piece to add parameter effects to certain notes?
You can do it this way, as far as I know, but you're not as likely to get a natural-sounding result. I don't own or use the iPad's TouchOSC app, but from what I understand, you assign the parameters beforehand (giving each CC the x- or y-axis, I think). To get the most human and natural sound, as you play in each part on the keyboard, keep one hand on the iPad, making the dynamics, swells, and adjustments in real-time.
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Motherboard: GIGABYTE Z68 PSU: Corsair 650W CPU: Intel i5 2500K Quad-Core (3.3GHz) Studio Monitors: M-Audio BX5 D2 Audio Interface: Lexicon Alpha SSD: Crucial m4 512GB RAM: 16GB OS: Windows 7 Home Premium Software: Finale 2012c Reaper Kontakt 5

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  #8  
Old 03-03-2013, 07:56 AM
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There is this thing called a "manual". On page 35 it says, "As discussed in multiple places within EastWest manuals, there are several ways you can affect how loudly an instrument is playing:
• MIDI Velocity
• Volume, CC 7
• Expression, CC 11
• the Mod Wheel, CC 1
Hollywood Strings includes a lot of instruments that rely on cross fading between samples instead of selecting which sample to play based on the MIDI Velocity parameter of each note. And these cross-fades can be controlled by the Mod Wheel, or CC 11, or both at once. Such an approach gives the composer much more in the way of continuous control over both the loudness and the timbre.

But this control comes with a price:
Greater use of the computer’s resources, especially the RAM and the processors. As is mentioned in some of the instrument descriptions below, PLAY might be playing up to 14 concurrent samples for each note (not including release trails).
The descriptions below sometimes specify that, for example, the instrument does not respond to MIDI velocity, or that you should use a specific approach when controlling dynamics and timbre. In general, if you find that an instrument is not responding to one of the ways of specifying loudness, even in instruments where it’s not mentioned, investigate using other means to get the dynamics you’re looking for."

Last edited by admin; 03-03-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:07 PM
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I appreciate the additional feedback guys, that definitely gives me more clarity. I have gone through the manual but it doesn't necessarily address the step by step how to type stuff that I'm asking in regards to TouchOSC and East West's Play.

There MUST be a TouchOSC ipad custom control layout for EastWest libraries, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7-XfSTVy00
taken from - http://www.midimockup.com/

Maybe not though, I just figured with how popular TouchOSC and EastWest is that it'd be out there somewhere.
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Last edited by admin; 03-08-2013 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:14 PM
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Do you not know where to find what cc and what keyswitch does what, or do you not know how to make a controller in TouchOSC that will control it?
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