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Old 08-12-2009, 01:12 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by Phillip L. View Post
umm....uhh....let's say I wanted you to compare a 2008 Mac to a PC and then a 2009 Mac to a PC....yeah.
Two places you could check for detailed info are the Cubendo forum and the DawBench forum.

However, in general:

Your machine will kill a 2008 Mac Pro in all respects.

The 2009 Mac Pros are different beasts. However, at low latencies there won't be that much difference, and yours might even work better. At high latencies the Mac should be able to beat the i7 PC.

However, one interesting thing to note, if you ran a 2009 Mac Pro using Bootcamp, then it would beat the same machine running OSX in all respects.

I hope that this helps. Do check out my links, because you will find lots of information that directly applies to DAW users, rather than the generic info you will find on other sites, which may or may not be appropriate to music users.

D
  #12  
Old 08-12-2009, 02:31 AM
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If you spend the same on a PC, from a reputable DAW builder (if it was even possible to spend the same) you would have a machine that was probably more reliable, higher specced and faster than a Mac

There should be no difference in the way that you work. Both machines are reliable. Both OS are reliable. So why would Mac be a better solution? I would suggest that the PC would turn up with everything you asked for pre-installed, so therefore should be much simpler to set up than some generic, off-the-shelf Mac.

D
Hey Daryl,

Have you used both extensively yourself to come to these conclusions? My point also has nothing to do with which would be easier to set up; which would be the better bang for buck, nor which can be more powerful; but rather which is - generally - much more stable and requires little to no maintenance nor much computer knowledge on the user's part; in this case the Mac.
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Last edited by persentio; 08-12-2009 at 02:33 AM.
  #13  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:09 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by persentio View Post
Hey Daryl,

Have you used both extensively yourself to come to these conclusions? My point also has nothing to do with which would be easier to set up; which would be the better bang for buck, nor which can be more powerful; but rather which is - generally - much more stable and requires little to no maintenance nor much computer knowledge on the user's part; in this case the Mac.
I've used both systems.

I'm afraid that the idea that a Mac requires no maintenance is a myth. That's one of the reasons that many forums are littered with support requests for Mac users. So many of them seem to have very little idea of how to use their machines, preferring to believe what Apple tells them.

As far as I'm concerned there is no difference in the amount of care that you have to take over your system.

I do agree that there are more parameters to tweak with a Windows PC, but most of those should be tweaked by the DAW builder. In any case, if you do no tweaks, all that happens is that your PCs performance is degraded.

I currently use a PC. I bought it, plugged it in, and used it. That's it. I didn't even have to go through the hassle of installing drives and memory (unlike most Mac users) because it was done by the system builder. I have made one tweak though, in order to get better performance at low latency. However, even without that, the system would run at a latency only dreamed about by Mac users using machines of the same generation. I hope that this helps.

D
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:16 AM
playz123 playz123 is offline
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Obviously there some rather strong opinions being expressed in this thread, and that's often what we see when it comes to Mac vs. PC debates. However I don't think either persentio I were entering that realm with our own comments at all, and personally I'm not prepared to be drawn into that type of debate anyway. I do use both a PC (for many years) and a Mac, and it is my opinion that the Mac is indeed a more intuitive machine for new users. Others may agree or disagree and that's fine, but that's as far as I'm going to go with this. Anything that can be said about PC vs. Mac has already been stated numerous times in numerous places and as always, the debate goes nowhere. There are pros and cons to both systems, but the bottom line is choose what most suits your needs and your budget, choose your components wisely and then make music. Either type of computer will do the job and do it well. IMHO, there is no 'definitive' answer these days............playz
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Originally Posted by playz123 View Post
Obviously there some rather strong opinions being expressed in this thread, and that's often what we see when it comes to Mac vs. PC debates.
Actually that's not quite accurate. I have expressed no opinion at all. I have presented facts. I have not said that Windows is easier or less easy to use than OSX. I have made no comment. It is all really simple. Whatever the situation 10 years ago, or even 3 years ago, things changed dramatically with Apple's move to Intel. The facts are:

Hardware

Macs are PCs
There is no myth about the components; they are the same.
Apple is just another PC builder.

Where the differences are is in the operating system.

Cross-platform applications tend to run better in Windows.
OSX crashes no less than Windows.
OSX is no more stable than Windows.

Now as to what OS is better will all depend on your likes and dislikes. It will also depends on what software you are running. This is all opinion, and I have no fixed opinion either way. If in the future OSX catches up or surpasses Windows, then I'll go back to Mac (or at least OSX). If it doesn't, I won't. I have no strong opinion either way. I just want to use what is the best now. Not in past. Not in the future. Now.

D
  #16  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Obviously there some rather strong opinions being expressed in this thread, and that's often what we see when it comes to Mac vs. PC debates. However I don't think either persentio I were entering that realm with our own comments at all, and personally I'm not prepared to be drawn into that type of debate anyway. I do use both a PC (for many years) and a Mac, and it is my opinion that the Mac is indeed a more intuitive machine for new users. Others may agree or disagree and that's fine, but that's as far as I'm going to go with this. Anything that can be said about PC vs. Mac has already been stated numerous times in numerous places and as always, the debate goes nowhere. There are pros and cons to both systems, but the bottom line is choose what most suits your needs and your budget, choose your components wisely and then make music. Either type of computer will do the job and do it well. IMHO, there is no 'definitive' answer these days............playz

Absolutely accurate.

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  #17  
Old 08-12-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip L. View Post
I know I've been posting alot, but I need answers:

So would an 8-core Mac with 4gb of RAM be the same as a Core i7/Quad with 8gb of RAM?

Just trying to figure out the differences, so that whenever hear music produced by a Mac, I can compare it's specs to my PC.
Hey Phillip, let's see if you'd care for a fresh perspective, that doesn't skew either platform in either favor, k?

When I was shopping for a Mac Pro (and I did NOT buy it)
I found the simple and obvious FACT that a PC build with far less money would be at the very least comparable, if
not vastly superior. The problem with building yourself is that there are many variables that seemingly NEED to either be addressed or dealt with more often than a MAC Pro built by apple.

Apple does not do anything special, except provide a simple, well thought out, well executed
Operating System...I personally know two handfuls of associates that ALL have Macs, ranging from Mac Pro's to Mac Book Pro's and they all have ZERO issues. Things just work. Things never freeze, they don't crash...No pops or clicks, no glitches...

Another example of this is REAPER. Reaper is a free DAW, that costs $60 for a full license.
Guess how big the program is? 4.8 MB's!!!! Not 100MB, 4.8!!! Why? No Dongle, No syncrosoft.

No B/S... That is why.

It works, it doesn't crash (for me) and it works. Did I mention it works?
All of my Cubase versions HAVE crashed, froze, bla bla bla...

Everyone knows that Vista is NOT an optimized operating system
Windows 7 IS Vista, the fixed version, and MANY have reported once buggy drivers to just work.

Daryl, you are the exception to the rule, not the norm, k?


Phillip, I am not in the least Computer Savy, and I can appreciate the Mac Pro
as a viable and out of the box solution, although I think I'd never buy one, due to cost.

The money that I would have used to get an 8 core Mac Pro I used to get so many things
I use today...Think about it!


Either will do the job, I've not researched the specs on Mac Pro's lately but honestly....
a 2.93GHZ i7 (4 core, 2 virtual threads each) for 8 virtual cores in a PC will be just as fast
or slightly slower than a Mac Pro 8 Core, depending on who you talk to.

I remembering you have a budget of $1500.00 so I wouldn't even think of buying Mac with that change...
By the time you will have enough cash, the 16 core Mac Pros will be out...


Please think it through, no matter what you buy today, tomorrow it WILL be slower than the latest release.

If I were in your situation I might be inclined to buy the fastest rocket of a computer (Mac or PC) just due to the issues
you are having...I totally understand.

The future is here, the i7's Socket LGA 1366.
If I were you, forget Quad Core Socket 775....

An i7 920, overclocked to say 3.2 gives you the speed you desire.
Getting a motherboard with 6 dimms gives you the memory you desire...

I only have 6GB of memory on my i7 and I have yet to exceed a load of 13%
We'll see how that number does once my track count gets up there...

Last edited by Johnny_B; 08-12-2009 at 08:32 PM.
  #18  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Phillip L. Phillip L. is offline
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6GB of memory is like the second coming of Christ for my PC, Johny. Thank you for the extremely detailed perspective on this case, but I must inform you that I am not against Macs, or PCs. I stick to PC because it is alot more open-sourced and flexible.

Mac vs. PC is like a Wii vs. 360

Wii barely ever freezes and is very fast, but at the same time, you can always add things to a 360.

"remembering you have a budget of $1500.00 so I wouldn't even think of buying Mac with that change..."

THANK YOU!!! That was kind of the point I was trying to get across in the other thread.

We are getting off topic. My request is, what is the PC equivalent of an 8-Core 6gb RAM Mac? It doesn't have to be exact.
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:17 AM
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My request is, what is the PC equivalent of an 8-Core 6gb RAM Mac? It doesn't have to be exact.
An 8 Core 6GB RAM PC.
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
We are getting off topic. My request is, what is the PC equivalent of an 8-Core 6gb RAM Mac? It doesn't have to be exact.
The equivalent is in actual fact exactly the same, you can match like for like hardware on MACs to PCs. So the Equivalent of an 8 core 6GB MAC is a 8 core 6GB PC.


The difference in performance is the OS and DAW software. At the moment there are problems with the latest MAC PROs (HT and C1E, ESIT tech) which seem to cause problems in OSX but not in XP or Vista giving a huge performance advantage at low latency to the windows platforms. The last generation also had problems again not because the hardware was any different but because a firmware update which allowed for the better low latency performance was not released.

I have been a system tech for BOTH platforms and setup them both up for pro audio use, the above isn't opinion, it can be backed up by numerous benchmarks.

That is performance, stability is harder to say (again talking about software, hardware failure rate will be the same) If there is a crash I have found that windows users will blame their machine first while MAC users will blame their interface or software. Ease of use again is subjective so I won't comment.

Last edited by darc; 08-13-2009 at 12:25 AM.
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