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Old 08-11-2017, 06:57 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default ComposerCloud X, does this sound ample for me?

Hi there, very tempted by the composer cloud x 24.99 monthly special at the moment. Previously I used platinum versions of Orchestra and Choir, which were huge...
I was sick for a few years and basically quit composing, but now I am finally getting back into it again..

This looks like a perfect all in one to cover so many instruments for one price..

I have a lot of hardware midi gear i am putting back into action, which takes care of my synth stuff, and UAD takes care of my FX.. so my processor, quad imac i7, is basically free.. I have 32Gb ram in it, and do not do professional soundtrack work requiring hundreds of tracks..

All I am wanting is something with high quality sounds for general composition.. Anything from orchestral, ambient (enya style), to pop.. I use a lot of string sounds and tend to use them for solos in many cases other than synths.

Everything i do including soundtrack style stuff is purely for personal enjoyment, music creation is my best form of personal zen and had been for 20 years before i got ill.

I wouldn't have even considered this before, but now that X has the close mic position which is a lot more suited to the sort of music I do, it's suddenly looking like the best option on the table..

Any concern with the 16 bit samples? It's kind of weird to be going back to 16 bit when everything I have done in so many years has been 32 or 24, especially when i used to use a lot of software synths, when bouncing i would always at minimum use 24 bits. Also, streaming platforms are getting more sophisticated as is download music, where 24 bit will become the new norm.

I presume they are sampled at 44.1k? Again, i often work in 96 cause analog synths sound GREAT when recorded at 96.. so can PLAY still work at 96k with the 44k samples? Will it automatically upsample?

Truth be told, I don't have room for another external hard drive, do not want to spend money on a good one anyway, and i like the idea of the smaller memory and drive footprint of the gold. So it suits me in every way, price, size, what is actually included.. i just basically want to know if the 16 bit samples *sound* good. That's the short version of this question.

Cheers and thanks!
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:20 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Ok I must admit I am confused.. One of the most important things to me is the Choir..
In the expansion page, it says that a play edition of Symphonic Choirs is needed.
In the specs, it says absolutely nothing about needing the Platinum version.
In fact, I have searched all the Choir pages, and nowhere does it say you need the Platinum for the expansion.
It even suggests on the expansion page that it is included in the basic composer cloud.

Yet I have read multiple times from users, that it doesn't work with gold.

This is the last deciding factor for me now, all i've been doing is listening to demos and researching since my first post and I was set on getting the subscription till I realised I might not get the expansion..

I don't mind buying it for $75 but I just want to make sure it will work.. That was one of my favourite things when I used it in the past.. If i have to get choirs platinum on it's own, that's a lot of money and something i have to think about.. I am really lacking in choir sounds.

Sounds Online make info like this very difficult to find sadly. Even just basic comparisons of their editions are hard to find, i only found one for orchestra.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:36 PM
JFH JFH is offline
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Hi TNM,

To answer your question about Symphonic Choirs: With ComposerCloud X, you have at your disposition:

Symphonic Choirs Gold

Symphonic Choirs Gold Expansion

Symphonic Choirs Gold X (which is the close mics)

So, everything you need seems to be there for you to use. Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but a whole new choir with wordbuilder is on its way: Hollywood Choirs (avail. Fall 2017). I don't know if it'll be in accessible through ComposerCloud right away, but just so you know... improvement is on its way.

About the 16bit / 24bit dilemma...

In my experience, any alteration in sample rate or bit rate will alter the sound in some way. I tend to stick with the 44.1khz/16bit format because of this, and the results sound stellar to my ear. That being said, I've read people say many times they worked at various settings without bothering about that, still using 16bit samples at their respective sample rate, and being very pleased with the final product (and their clients)... some very big players too.

The fact that you prefer working at 96khz almost rules out any sample library out there if you wish to stick with the same format like I do, so I'd say you shouldn't worry about it.

BUT... One thing you should be aware of: When it comes to sample players, everyone of them I've tested plays very well when you work in a different bitrate. When it comes to sample rate though, as on-the-fly conversion will be applied (usually playing the samples at the target sample rate with pitch correction applied), the difference in what you hear might be a little more obvious.

The smaller footprint that 16 bit samples offer is the reason why I still stick with them, and will probably continue to do so for years to come...

Cheers!

(I also jumped on board with the ComposerCloud X offer)
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Last edited by JFH; 08-11-2017 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:42 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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What a wonderful answer, thank you so much. I am going for it too. It's a no brainer.. I just checked out various sample libraries, and for example on the cheaper end, to just own even basic garritan stuff would be around 600$ for just 4 decent libraries which is 2 years of X that has about 20x the content. On the expensive end, we have libraries going into thousands of dollars for just ONE library.. It's a total no brainer.. Even the plus version is a no brainer for $49 a month.. The hard drive you buy the samples on for that is very very fast for an external usb 3 drive (buffalo DDR), so you'd basically be able to do it all pre installed from that drive, and get the big libraries for $600 a year. Eventually if i am well enough to start making money from this again, i could just upgrade to that bundle. For my imac now, the small footprint is more suited.. not just for hard drive space but processor power and RAM..

I'll stay on X for a few years and then re evaluate, cheers.. Thanks again.

PS do you know, if one upgrades to platinum versions, can they backwards load in projects where I used gold?

I noticed even platinum are all at 44.1 khz.

I would like to see some libraries being sampled at 48 minimum, or indeed 96.. Downsampling is less of a deal than upsampling IIRC. But yes it does depend on the SR conversion algorithm in the plugin. It does make sense that 44.1 would have the least cpu load though. I won't change to 16 bit when i bounce the stems just for this plugin, when globally in my daw I have chosen 24 bit.. I won't sacrifice recording external analog instruments, real guitars and vocals at 16 bit just because of this. All the DAW will do is add 8 empty bits to the 16, it won't make a lick of difference to the sound, all it will do it take a bit more hard drive space than if I was to bounce them at 16 bit.

do you use any softsynths? The algorithmic softsynths that don't use any samples, sound amazing at 96K.. I can even clearly hear the difference and I have ear damage.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:53 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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WOW this is awesome, thank you so much and I just wanted to thank East West as well. They have really helped me in the past, and I am already up and running! The download center is giving me the maximum 120 mbps DL speed my connection can get, so their servers are rocking! Obviously I don't have all yet but downloaded the solo violin, voices of passion, and Electronica to start right now hehe, i'll download the rest in the background. I am so glad I went for this.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:40 AM
JFH JFH is offline
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No worries! It does offer a lot for the price..

I'm not sure about the backwards compatibility from Gold to Platinum (or Diamond).. But I think I remember reading Jay Asher say once that you'd have to reload every instruments one by one... You might want to double check that though, don't take my word for it.

Yeah.. it would be great if the industry's standard for every media out there (music, film, etc..), and sample libraries for that matter, could someday become 48khz for everything. IMHO though, I believe 96khz to be overkill... At least for delivery format. Not only because 99.999% of people out there will never be able to hear the difference, but also because of the size. Don't forget we live in a world relying less and less on physical media. Recording a band, acoustic music, or an orchestra at higher resolution though: bring it on! And as for sample libraries: it's still "collages"... so why waste the computer resources?! Don't get me wrong though.. I live for my little collages!

About Down/Upsampling.. I think it's the opposite, actually. Downsampling does introduce artifacts, and it is generally not recommended. Well, not without some specialized software dedicated for this, so I think you can forget about on-the-fly conversion giving you pristine results. Again: not an expert on the matter, but an avid reader.

Also, working in 24bit with 16bit samples, and then exporting to 16bit wouldn't help, I'm afraid... I ran a bunch of tests myself, and it seems the signal chain's format has to remain the same all the way... Of course, most DAWs work natively in 32bit-floating, but this we have no control over.

I don't use softsynths very often, but when I do, I mangle the sounds in the same vein Charlie Clouser does, so... you know..

You're getting VERY good download speed.. I'll have to talk with my provider! ^_^

I hope you have fun with your new toys... I sure am looking forward to this!
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Last edited by JFH; 08-12-2017 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:46 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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You are dead right about SR conversion, i had it backwards.. the big one is going to a lower sample rate and you need something high quality like izotope to do that well. Lots of great comparisons here http://src.infinitewave.ca

My download is great, but you will laugh when i tell you upload LOL.. try 2 mbps.. it's a problem with ALL australian cable, and all australian internet since the beginning.. no fast upload speeds.. until now with NBN, in some areas we can get 40 upload which is the absolute fastest, you can't get faster than that anywhere in oz.. our internet is ranked pretty low among developed countries.. I just happen to be lucky with downloads in my particular spot with cable Also depending on time of day of course.

I have to say, I am irritated now that I am going through a lot of the sounds, that there is no left right or up down arrow to just browse next/previous sound. I mean this is elementary that is on every other plugin rompler/sampler on the planet. I remember requesting this 5 years ago and i am shocked it wasn't added.

Furthermore, asking me every single time if i want to replace the sound rather than just being able to click on a sound and load it.. this is a major workflow killer for me.

It;s a shame, as the sounds are good, the fx are good, and otherwise it's dead easy to use. Oh well.
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:08 AM
JFH JFH is offline
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Didn't know about Australia's internet speed... You're still getting your instruments 30 times faster than me!

Have you ever tried using multiple patches within one instance of PLAY? You can do this and "keyswitch" between them using Expression Maps. Saves you a lot of wasted space having, lets say, your celli section on one or two tracks instead of a bunch of them. I usually use one for legatos, and one for the other articulations. Setting up expression maps can be a little puzzling at first, I'm still working my way around it, but if you read around the internet you'll figure it out.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:32 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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yes i'm setting up multi's.. regardless all of the tempo stuff is broken in pro tools and even just basic midi melody has a timing problem in pro tools. No issues in Logic but i don't use Logic anymore. This is more or less unusable for me now, and i'm paying for it. So happy. I started a support question here but if they don't answer me i'll have to send an email and failing that i'll ask for a refund and cancellation. I have absolutely no idea how a major daw like pro tools isn't properly tested before release. I've confirmed it on 3 macs now, one with 10.10.5, one with 10.11.6 and one with 10.12.6
One with PT 12.4, one with 12.7.1 and one with 12.8
That was my weekend. Copying 700gb of data to an external drive and taking it and the ilok around various computers to test the issue. I'm drained, need to sleep, and hopefully will wake up to some positive hopeful replies from eastwest support. Thanks for all your help JFH Peace.
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:54 AM
jspencer jspencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post

Any concern with the 16 bit samples? It's kind of weird to be going back to 16 bit when everything I have done in so many years has been 32 or 24, especially when i used to use a lot of software synths, when bouncing i would always at minimum use 24 bits. Also, streaming platforms are getting more sophisticated as is download music, where 24 bit will become the new norm.
I think you are confusing the the DAW sample rate with the library sample rate. You probably don't have many soft synths that were actually 24bit. The Gold versions were recorded at 16bit, and they sound wonderful (I doubt you would hear the difference between that and 24bit). If you set you DAW to 24bit or higher, that doesn't mean you can't use the 16bit samples; I do everything in 24/48 using Gold libraries. Perhaps one of the forum Guru's could chime in and explain this in more detail.
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