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  #11  
Old 12-27-2016, 01:00 AM
Piano Pete Piano Pete is offline
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Correct me if I am wrong, but in the case of a lot of composers -- especially Hans Zimmer -- isn't a lot of the low end coming from synths? I have always experienced their contra-bass still coming from where I would expect it, the right.
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2016, 03:33 AM
Dominik Raab Dominik Raab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piano Pete View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but in the case of a lot of composers -- especially Hans Zimmer -- isn't a lot of the low end coming from synths? I have always experienced their contra-bass still coming from where I would expect it, the right.
In my experience, yes. Sometimes from the left (mirrored), sometimes from the right, but I don't generally hear contras-basses from the center. Basses and Celli right, synths center is rather common, though.
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2016, 10:42 AM
Piano Pete Piano Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominik Raab View Post
In my experience, yes. Sometimes from the left (mirrored), sometimes from the right, but I don't generally hear contras-basses from the center. Basses and Celli right, synths center is rather common, though.
So Zelda, perhaps the sound that you are looking for would be obtained by utilizing some synths? Try them on the left or center and see what happens.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2017, 02:53 PM
adriann2 adriann2 is offline
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Like Zelda, I'd prefer to decide for myself if I want to put basses down the middle or the right or the left.

I am disappointed that this decision has been made for me, based on 'standard orchestra seating'. This is going back 300 years, lol.

If someone is writing for orchestra or a movie score, and they need the basses on the right, then of course they know how to put them there.

Too much dumbing down results in a lack of flexibility. This is an exceptionally good product but why can't they allow their users to do some of the thinking and work if they want to? What's wrong with an unorthodox seating arrangement?
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2017, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adriann2 View Post
Like Zelda, I'd prefer to decide for myself if I want to put basses down the middle or the right or the left.

I am disappointed that this decision has been made for me, based on 'standard orchestra seating'. This is going back 300 years, lol.

If someone is writing for orchestra or a movie score, and they need the basses on the right, then of course they know how to put them there.

Too much dumbing down results in a lack of flexibility. This is an exceptionally good product but why can't they allow their users to do some of the thinking and work if they want to? What's wrong with an unorthodox seating arrangement?
No offense, but it is clear that you do not understand stereo imaging and placement. You cannot achieve proper placement of orchestral instruments in the stereo field with simple panning; it is much more complicated than that as it involves subtle early reflections and other factors (many of which I myself am completely ignorant of).

I write primarily orchestral film scores for a living and wouldn't have it any other way. I am also not aware of a single halfway decent library (I own most of them) that doesn't record orchestral instruments in a similar way. Honestly, be thankful they took the time to do it right. This is about as user friendly as a top tier orchestral library gets.
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:27 AM
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Well, that is a little over the top, Ryan. There are arguments for both approaches and fine developers have made them over the years.

Still, mostly I prefer orchestral instruments rto be recorded in position, as they have been with this orchestra.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:49 PM
adriann2 adriann2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auralaxiom View Post
No offense, but it is clear that you do not understand stereo imaging and placement.
This is more pompous than I'd have expected from someone with JBL LSR308 monitors. I understand much more than you think I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auralaxiom View Post
You cannot achieve proper placement of orchestral instruments in the stereo field with simple panning; it is much more complicated than that as it involves subtle early reflections and other factors (many of which I myself am completely ignorant of).
The average listener wouldn't know proper placement from an aircraft carrier, Ryan. Even your monitors would negate much of these subtle early reflections. And it's not unheard of, for an orchestra to put basses in the back centre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auralaxiom View Post
I write primarily orchestral film scores for a living and wouldn't have it any other way. I am also not aware of a single halfway decent library (I own most of them) that doesn't record orchestral instruments in a similar way. Honestly, be thankful they took the time to do it right. This is about as user friendly as a top tier orchestral library gets.
You are right that all the major sample libraries have used this kind of placement, at least 2 of the other 3 I have, anyway. I haven't checked VSL. But it's not necessarily wise to blindly adopt this attitude of "It must be right and there must be a good reason because everyone does it that way, and they've been doing it that way for hundreds of years".

User-friendly? YES, I acknowledge that. My original post hints that the more user-friendly something is, the less flexible it is. It's not possible to please everyone, of course. But I stand by my statement. For a sound recording, and even for the audience in a concert hall, it sounds better if the basses are not placed far-right, but closer to the middle rear.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:11 PM
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Auralaxiom and adriann2 doing music for film is drastically different than for a concert hall, so you might want to mimic the concert hall or you might not, depending on the nature of the music and on your taste.

Both approaches in recording an orchestral library have good arguments for them. It is silly for either of you to be dogmatic about it. You choose the libraries that did it the way you prefer or you just deal with what it is.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adriann2 View Post
The average listener wouldn't know proper placement from an aircraft carrier, Ryan.
Well, that I disagree with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adriann2 View Post
And it's not unheard of, for an orchestra to put basses in the back centre.
Correct - it's not unheard of. But do you think devs should use positioning that is used sparingly - esp for film score music (which IS what orch sample libs are generally made for more than anything else) - or should devs use one that is most common? Personally, I want the instruments recorded in the most common position, as I think most people do. Devs nowadays are catering to the masses - not the few who want to do things out of the norm.

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  #20  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adriann2 View Post
This is more pompous than I'd have expected from someone with JBL LSR308 monitors. I understand much more than you think I do.

The average listener wouldn't know proper placement from an aircraft carrier, Ryan. Even your monitors would negate much of these subtle early reflections. And it's not unheard of, for an orchestra to put basses in the back centre.
Apologies if I sounded brusque (I think I did, for the record--sometimes the verbal filter can fail).

That said, as has already been pointed out the Hollywood series instruments are designed to sound like, well, Hollywood. The vast majority of Hollywood film scores have traditional orchestral seating, and it's really impossible to simulate that with panning as accurately as you can by simply recording them in the "correct" seating position.

As for my monitors, they do the job I need them to. Quite good for the money actually, and I'd rather spend my $$ on things I really need, like more libraries
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