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Old 03-17-2017, 08:13 PM
ecurb ecurb is offline
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Default Breath control?

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about getting some sort of breath controller to help add more realism, mostly for Hollywood Wind and Brass parts.

I am not a wind instrument player, so the approach I'm interested in is playing the notes on the keyboard while providing breath expression through the controller. From what I can find, the Swedish made TeControl products look like the kind of thing I'm after - just wondering if anyone here has had any experience using them (or other breath controllers come to that) with EastWest libraries, how effective they are and how easy to set up, or anything tricky to watch out for when using them.

Thanks heaps
Bruce.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:09 PM
mrdsee mrdsee is offline
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That's the one I use.
http://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb...ath-controller

It works great, and is easily set up to personal preferences. But due to the added coordination involved I usually record the notes first and then go back and add the expression, etc data via the controller. Then one can fine tune the automation curves manually. There are others here who use these as well.
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Old 03-18-2017, 09:22 AM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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I also was very persuaded by videos I have seen of the Tecontrol BBC2 being used, and I had one delivered just 2 days ago. However, I have been quite confused about setting up the correct CC arrangements to make it work the way I think it should.

I would be interested mrdsee in what CC controllers you use with EastWest libraries via the breath controller?

I also thought it would be easier to lay down the basic MIDI notes and then edit the controllers afterward. Are there any tips you can offer about how you do that mrdsee?

I recently bought a Leap Motion controller and the Geco App that allows it to work with Midi. I had visions that it should be possible to play a melody line on the keyboard with my right hand, while waving my left hand over the Leap Motion, and at the same time blowing into the Tecontrol. I think maybe I was being over-optimistic, but then with practice the human body is amazingly adaptive!
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:50 PM
mrdsee mrdsee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPDmike View Post

I would be interested mrdsee in what CC controllers you use with EastWest libraries via the breath controller?

I also thought it would be easier to lay down the basic MIDI notes and then edit the controllers afterward. Are there any tips you can offer about how you do that mrdsee?
I use EWSO and when say using a woodwinds solo patch I'll use the Expression (CC11) parameter. Setting the BC to CC11 in the BC software app.

I also use Pro Tools, and in PT I use the Auto Latch Mode(Make sure Midi Merge is on) and then you can go back and add/edit just the Expression Parameter in real time while the pre-recorded midi notes play without those notes being erased. Then you can fine tune the automation lines with the pencil tool.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:16 PM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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Many thanks for your reply mrdsee. Not having used a breath controller before, I was influenced by the comments I saw that pointed to CC2 being the main control. When I tried this I didn't seem to get any response from the instruments, although I could see the blowing moving the sliders in my DAW (Cubase 9).

I don't have Pro Tools, but I am pretty sure I can do something similar in Cubase to what you use for editing the expression.

Thank you for your help and hopefully I will manage to master this in the next couple of days. Perhaps ecurb will soon be placing an order for a breath controller and joining the club.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:34 PM
mrdsee mrdsee is offline
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It just depends on what the library is set up with controller wise at the factory. CC2 is used with other companies libraries though.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:47 PM
ecurb ecurb is offline
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Thanks very much for your replies, mrdsee and MPDmike.

As far as CC mapping, I'd expect CC1 mod wheel would be the go for at least some of the EW library sounds as well, those that use it for dynamic cross fades anyway.

One thing I'm really not clear about is how you could marry the breath control up with different articulations, like staccato notes from quick short puffs. If you can do that at all - suspect you might still need to use key or channel switching to achieve that.

The overdub approach for adding the expression separately makes sense - and it's pretty trivial to do in Reaper too, you just make sure you're in "overdub" instead of "replace" recording mode and make as many passes at the section as you want, adding whatever you want along the way. Though I can't help feeling it would be nicer, and a more complete performance feel, if you could manage it all in one pass.

That leap motion stuff does look really interesting too, MPDMike... might be really nice for string swells and the like, I'm thinking. You'll have to let us know how you go with it!

Thanks again
Bruce.
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:49 PM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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Hi Bruce, I think you can still use different articulations with the breath controller, but this will require some experimentation to see which ones work best in the music you are creating. Also be aware that not all libraries have the same CC controls available.

EastWest virtual instrument libraries are some of the best available and they work very well for most situations. However, I have become aware that, particularly with solo instruments, physically modelled instruments can be more expressive when used with a breath controller, as they can be designed to have extra controls for all possible playing techniques. This is hard to do with sample based libraries, which mean all possible options have to be recorded (many GBs) and then they might not be entirely suitable in all situations.

At the moment, I am not sure where the future lies with breath controllers, and other means of controlling CC like the Leap Motion device. It seems far more intuitive to me to control expression, vibrato, flutter tongue, etc by something like a breath controller than foot pedals or trying to do it with a mouse. I hope that EastWest will consider this in future developments of their libraries. I am also interested in the Midi guitar news that Eastwest has announced, as I have a couple of Midi guitars I want to make more use of.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:25 PM
MPDmike MPDmike is offline
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I sent you a PM ecurb, I hope it is useful.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:50 PM
ecurb ecurb is offline
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Thanks again MPDmike, replied in kind.

Cheers,
Bruce.
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