Go Back   Soundsonline-Forums > Topics > Hardware
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-30-2015, 08:19 AM
LMW's Avatar
LMW LMW is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,173
LMW is on a distinguished road
Default High CPU Levels

Hi,

I have a small problem. Or at least I think I have a problem. I“m not really tech-savvy, so I“ll just post and hope that this will clear itself one way or the other...

I“ve been using PLAY (v4.2.2) in combination with Cubase (Full Version 7.5.3) for about three months now.
During this time my templates had a maximum of ca. 40-50 tracks. Each with one instance of PLAY in it.
When I didn“t press a key on my keyboard, my CPU was on 0-1%.
When pressing up to 8 keys with three tracks recording, I got up to 20%.

Now that I have a lot more confidence in myself, knowing the libraries better and whatnot, I decided to up the size of my template so that I could compose properly. So I got around to loading a lot of instruments. KS, Shorts, Longs and Effects for almost every instrument available, plus a percussion section. Now I have around 250 tracks.

And then I noticed that my CPU mean was around 70%!! Is this normal?
I would have thought that only loading the samples into RAM and not playing wouldn“t use up CPU.

I have currently 28.6 GB of 32 GB RAM loaded. I“m not pressing any key, I have not a single background programm open, W-LAN is off, Avira is off, and yet I get a mean of 70%. It never goes under 65% and never hits 80%.

The buffersize before was 512, now I had to raise it to 1024 to get the clicks and pops out.
Samplerate is 44100Hz, Maximum Voices is on 245, Engine Level is on High, drives are properly formatted,
although I haven“t done the 840 EVO upgrade yet. I“ve got a i7-4910MQ 2.9 GHz CPU.

Any ideas on this?

Thanks in advance,
__________________
Lorenz W. - EastWest Technical Support - E-Mail: lorenz@eastwestsounds.com

Helpful links: Sample Path, Library Sizes, Tips and Tricks, OS & DAWs - "On Drives" is being Updated
Hardware: OS W7 Pro, i7-4910MQ 2,9 GHz (Overclock to 3,9 GHz), 32GB RAM, int. 3TB 840 EVO SSDs,
ext. 1TB Samsung T1 + 6TB backup + UR22 Interface + Kawai MP7 (88 Keys) + Yamaha MS60S Speakers
Software: Cubase Pro 8.0.40, PLAY v6.X.X, EastWest et multi alii
  #2  
Old 01-31-2015, 05:38 AM
Zeeck's Avatar
Zeeck Zeeck is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: London
Posts: 20
Zeeck is on a distinguished road
Default Same problem.

Hello Mate

Let me tell you I have same problem on my 12 Core Mac Pro! And I believe it is matter of Audio Drivers from you Audio Interface Provider. I have for instance Tascam UH7000, which sounds absolutely fantastic, but it is USB 2.0. Having all fully loaded tracks triggers tons of GB of data which of course must be processed by CPU through your AI via usb! (no full duplex I guess)

Solution could be Thunderbolt 2 AI. like Apogee Ensemble new model which is design for task like this. Has build in DMA Technology. Direct Memory Access, according to Apogee avoids CPU as much as possible to speed up whole process.

Price tag is massive, 1800£ - 1999£ here in UK. Well I can tell I have all ready started saving some extra cash.

I am still digging in to find solution.


Cheers mate!
  #3  
Old 01-31-2015, 07:18 AM
LMW's Avatar
LMW LMW is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,173
LMW is on a distinguished road
Default

I just thought, that having the samples loaded into RAM and not doing anything would mean
that the CPU wouldn“t need to work much...
__________________
Lorenz W. - EastWest Technical Support - E-Mail: lorenz@eastwestsounds.com

Helpful links: Sample Path, Library Sizes, Tips and Tricks, OS & DAWs - "On Drives" is being Updated
Hardware: OS W7 Pro, i7-4910MQ 2,9 GHz (Overclock to 3,9 GHz), 32GB RAM, int. 3TB 840 EVO SSDs,
ext. 1TB Samsung T1 + 6TB backup + UR22 Interface + Kawai MP7 (88 Keys) + Yamaha MS60S Speakers
Software: Cubase Pro 8.0.40, PLAY v6.X.X, EastWest et multi alii
  #4  
Old 01-31-2015, 11:09 AM
interpolate interpolate is offline
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,874
interpolate is on a distinguished road
Default

DMA gets also used in RME and Echo products which won't cost as much. PCI-E eliminates much of the need for DMA because it's speed. However such as already said, Thunderbolt as an external solution is your best option.

USB 3 is your next best alternative although not widely used as an interface format.
__________________
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

Update coming over the next few months:

Obligatory software list: Sonar X4 Platinum, EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold, EWQL Symphonic Choir Bundle, QL Spaces, VSL Suite, EWQL Hollywood Brass/Strings Gold, QL Solo Violin, Universal Audio Plug-ins and some other things with knobs and buttons.

Current system: AMD Phenom X6 1090T 3.2GHz, 8GB, 512GB/750GB hard drives and 256GB SSD drive, EMU 1212M, UAD DSP.

  #5  
Old 02-10-2015, 02:53 AM
jcrosby's Avatar
jcrosby jcrosby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 95
jcrosby is on a distinguished road
Default

It's not your audio interface or drivers. That's what happens when you load lots of CPU heavy instruments in the same project and fill your RAM up. Unfortunately you can only do so much on one machine...

You mentioned having 28.6 GB of 32 GB RAM loaded. Are you using Play's interface to tell you the RAM footprint? If so I would venture to guess that you're machine is actually using all of it's RAM between Play, the DAW, your OS and any other background processes running; and your CPU is struggling to swap data out of RAM, which is full, in turn trying to swap out to your HD, and back. When RAM gets completely full performance can become unstable, degraded etc...

Just like headroom in a mix, you need to leave CPU (and RAM) headroom. (RAM is a vital piece of that puzzle since RAM is how your computer focuses on the task at hand, and decides the best way to put other tasks on hold in order to complete the task(s) in front of it at that moment.)

Just to emphasize the importance of giving RAM some wiggle room; RAM is thousands of times slower than a CPU. So if your CPU is running near it's limit and trying to deicide which of the many tasks to put on hold it has to refer back to a memory location that is thousands of times slower than the CPU itself. It only has so much wiggle room before it's struggling to keep up because it has to constantly move data back and forth between a bus that is thousands of times slower than it can think. And if you run out of physical RAM than it's trying to swap some of it out to an HD which is in turn thousands of times slower than RAM.

Think about how much more RAM your loading up with an orchestral template like yours vs editing a photoshop image, watching youtube, or mixing 10-20 audio tracks with only a few plugins here or there.... In the basic scenarios your machine still has plenty of RAM to organize the queue of tasks it's running ; but in your case the queue of tasks is really long and require lots of work, putting a strain on the CPU...

As for the audio interface - You might see slightly lower latency varying from audio interface to audio interface, however that is audio coming in and leaving the computer ONLY. The audio buffer itself is totally CPU dependent so don't buy another interface thinking your performance will improve. All the audio your concerned with is happening in your DAW, ie in your machine and is totally CPU dependent..

Sorry for the long winded post but hope it helps...
__________________
Logic X 10.2.4 | Studio One 3 | Vienna Ensemble Pro 6

Master: Mac Pro 5,1, 12 Core 3.46 Ghz | 64 GB RAM | OSX 10.11.6

Slave Machine : Mac Mini Server 2012 Core i7, 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.11.6 | 2TB RAID 0

Metric Halo ULN-2 | M-Audio Axiom 61 | UAD-2 OCTO.


EWSO Gold / Hollywood Strings Gold / Hollywood Brass Gold / /HOW Gold / Hollywood Percussion Gold / Symphonic Choirs / Ghostwriter / Storm Drum 2 & 3 / Ministry Of Rock 2 / Ra / Silk / The Dark Side / Spaces
  #6  
Old 02-10-2015, 09:04 AM
holywilly holywilly is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 113
holywilly is on a distinguished road
Default

Maybe using Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 might help! Even using VEP on the single machine will make your DAW (cubase) less stress at the high track counts.
  #7  
Old 02-10-2015, 01:23 PM
Khaled Hamdy Khaled Hamdy is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 144
Khaled Hamdy is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to Khaled Hamdy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMW View Post
I just thought, that having the samples loaded into RAM and not doing anything would mean
that the CPU wouldn“t need to work much...
You are correct, i'm having the same issue as well, i already email the support team about the case and no one got back to me yet.. which is ridiculous since sent my email 4 days ago and never got any feedback.

Anyway, i believe you are utilising some SD3 instruments.. am i right?

I have two slave PC computers serving my main DAW iMac as slaves, one of them is loaded with 29GB of RAM out of the 32GB installed ones and it's running seamless Play 3.0.47 with 243 instruments loaded, all Hollywood diamond Libraries and RAM intensive instruments.

While on my other machine, i decided to update my template with SD3 library, which unfortunately is only available for Play 4.

The first machine is using 10 to 40% of CPU usage at max, while as soon as i connect my template to SD3 instance on the second machine.. the CPU usage jumps to 40%-60% at rest and straight to 90% as soon as i press the play button or use any of the SD3 instruments.

Somehow SD3 and play 4 are confusing the processor and exhausting it.. i can hear the fan screaming inside the computer. the reason why i'm sure it's SD3 is because prior to including it in my template the computer behaved the same way the first machine behaves.

I also built the same SD3 instance on my iMac inside VEP5 and the processor jumped to the roof along with freezes, clicks and pops.

It seems like we're stuck with this problem until they fix what i believe is bugs in either SD3 or play or both combined.

Regards,
Khaled Hamdy
__________________
PC1 (Slave VEPro 5): Intel Core i7 CPU 3.40GHz, RAM 32GB, Win 7 64-bit (240 GB SSD), 480GB SSD & 512GB SSD
PC2 (Slave VEPro 5): Intel Core i7 CPU 3.40GHz, RAM 32GB, Win 7 64-bit & 512GB SSD

Cubase 7 / VEPro (iMac)

East West:
HS Diamond, HB Diamond, HW Diamond, Symphonic Choirs, SO Platinum, Goliath, SD2, SD3, VOPassion, Pianos, Silk, Gypsy, Dark Side & QL Spaces
  #8  
Old 02-10-2015, 01:45 PM
LMW's Avatar
LMW LMW is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,173
LMW is on a distinguished road
Default

@jcrosby: Very many thanks for that detailed answer!
I think I understood the quintessence of your sermon: Less tracks!

Actually, I was using Windows Task-Manager. I“m not quite sure how high the CPU usage was in the PLAY-interface.
Are these two calculated differently?

@holywilly: Yup, I“ve been thinking about that, but one thing is needed for VEPro5: Money!
Something which I lack consistently as a student.

@Khaled Hamdy: Actually, no I wasn“t using SD3. I only use HOP, SD2, TDS and Gypsy for my drums.
I haven“t found the need for SD3 and MOR2 - yet. I only own them, because of the BOGO offer last year.
__________________
Lorenz W. - EastWest Technical Support - E-Mail: lorenz@eastwestsounds.com

Helpful links: Sample Path, Library Sizes, Tips and Tricks, OS & DAWs - "On Drives" is being Updated
Hardware: OS W7 Pro, i7-4910MQ 2,9 GHz (Overclock to 3,9 GHz), 32GB RAM, int. 3TB 840 EVO SSDs,
ext. 1TB Samsung T1 + 6TB backup + UR22 Interface + Kawai MP7 (88 Keys) + Yamaha MS60S Speakers
Software: Cubase Pro 8.0.40, PLAY v6.X.X, EastWest et multi alii
  #9  
Old 02-10-2015, 02:28 PM
jcrosby's Avatar
jcrosby jcrosby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 95
jcrosby is on a distinguished road
Default

VEP Really does help. The other reality is Play has a high CPU idle compared to other VIs and is something I hope they address in the future. That being said, the only ways around for now are VEP and or smaller VI count...
__________________
Logic X 10.2.4 | Studio One 3 | Vienna Ensemble Pro 6

Master: Mac Pro 5,1, 12 Core 3.46 Ghz | 64 GB RAM | OSX 10.11.6

Slave Machine : Mac Mini Server 2012 Core i7, 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.11.6 | 2TB RAID 0

Metric Halo ULN-2 | M-Audio Axiom 61 | UAD-2 OCTO.


EWSO Gold / Hollywood Strings Gold / Hollywood Brass Gold / /HOW Gold / Hollywood Percussion Gold / Symphonic Choirs / Ghostwriter / Storm Drum 2 & 3 / Ministry Of Rock 2 / Ra / Silk / The Dark Side / Spaces
  #10  
Old 02-10-2015, 10:44 PM
LMW's Avatar
LMW LMW is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,173
LMW is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrosby View Post
The other reality is Play has a high CPU idle compared to other VIs.
Do you know why that is? I would thing doing nothing would mean no CPU usage.
__________________
Lorenz W. - EastWest Technical Support - E-Mail: lorenz@eastwestsounds.com

Helpful links: Sample Path, Library Sizes, Tips and Tricks, OS & DAWs - "On Drives" is being Updated
Hardware: OS W7 Pro, i7-4910MQ 2,9 GHz (Overclock to 3,9 GHz), 32GB RAM, int. 3TB 840 EVO SSDs,
ext. 1TB Samsung T1 + 6TB backup + UR22 Interface + Kawai MP7 (88 Keys) + Yamaha MS60S Speakers
Software: Cubase Pro 8.0.40, PLAY v6.X.X, EastWest et multi alii
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.